What algorithm did Windows XP use to choose your initial user picture?

(devblogs.microsoft.com)

127 points | by soheilpro 3 hours ago

13 comments

  • mawadev 1 hour ago
    That is a case I only become aware of when I read blogs like this. Technically I could solve it the same way, but these days you have so many tasks on your desk, you don't think about the problem and implications at all and that awareness/discipline is drowned in the noise/unlearned over time.

    If someone only gave me 2 minutes for this, because they think it is very simple (as always), I'd have done a count of files of a specific pattern in the directory and then picked a random index, very naive and quick and dirty programming, no sampling at all, just to avoid discussions why it takes so long with people who don't want to hear it.

    This reminds me of when I did a lot of C#, Java, JS, Python in my life, filling maps of strings and objects until I started with zig and noticed how expensive and complicated strings and data structure allocations can be. It kind of blew my mind how much memory and computation we waste when we try to get stuff done as fast as possible because of budget/time constraints.

  • dsego 1 minute ago
    Why doesn't it return on the first match?
  • lyorig 1 hour ago
    Man, every post from Raymond Chen regarding Windows internals is like a little Xmas. I wonder whether he has to ask someone for permission before publishing this knowledge, though.
    • alex_suzuki 40 minutes ago
      I also wonder what his thoughts on “modern Windows” are
      • dyllon 27 minutes ago
        His silence speaks a thousand words.
      • darig 9 minutes ago
        [dead]
  • impoppy 26 minutes ago
    >Raymond has been involved in the evolution of Windows for more than 30 years. He occasionally appears on the Windows Dev Docs Twitter account to tell stories which convey no useful information.
    • carrja99 22 minutes ago
      That made me chuckle too. No utility, but I did find it interesting.
  • cgio 2 hours ago
    The times when people spent an extra brain cycle to avoid billions of second passes.
  • ape4 17 minutes ago
    It somewhat odd that systems don't have a call to tell you how many files are in a folder.
    • ygra 3 minutes ago
      Either that call would have to do the same (i.e., walking the files and counting), or you'd need some additional metadata in the directory entry to store how many files there are, requiring additional storage accesses for adding and removing files. Adding to that that both FAT32 and NTFS are quite old and had to run on older hardware. Cycles and disk accesses are not free.

      On top of that, how often is it necessary to efficiently know the number of files in a directory while at the same time not caring about the files enough to list or display them? This algorithm is a special case where you could use the count of using a bit simpler code that ultimately would have the same file system API calls (since you cannot tell the FS to give you file #37 from that directory, so you'd have to use FindNextFile 37 times anyway, just like the sampling algorithm).

    • eventualcomp 6 minutes ago
      I feel like there would either be too many locks or too much contention on something like /var/log or /tmp if that API was ever exposed to userspace.
    • conorcleary 15 minutes ago
      just have it count how many times del cmd runs successfully /s
      • saagarjha 10 minutes ago
        Claude, is that you?
  • EMIRELADERO 28 minutes ago
    For those interested, here's the actual code Chen talks about: https://github.com/tongzx/nt5src/blob/daad8a087a4e75422ec96b...
    • ycuser2 18 minutes ago
      Didn't know that NT5 source is available for the public. Why Microsoft does not ban/delete it on GitHub?
  • jasonvorhe 2 hours ago
    A couple of screenshots would've been useful for the post-millennial generations that never got to see the "beauty" (cough) of XP.
    • moritzwarhier 2 hours ago
      Here's a blog post from 2003 with beautiful pictures.

      https://jakeludington.com/2003/12/17/create_your_own_windows...

    • Maken 2 hours ago
      XP is Microsoft's prettiest OS by far.
      • mrweasel 1 hour ago
        That's a matter of taste, but for many it was the Windows they used first and/or spend the most time on and there's a lot of love for that reason alone. I never used XP all that much, but I always changed the theme to the Windows 2000 look. I really didn't like the default, it looked unprofessional and clunky in my eyes. Upon release XP was also pretty universally mocked as a Fisher Price-like UI.

        To me Windows 95/NT 4 is still the gold standard in Windows UI. It's certainly not the prettiest, that would be Windows 2000, but it was easy to use, easy to navigate and efficient with space.

        • agumonkey 47 minutes ago
          win2k was peak for me. lean, functional, just a pinch of glitter here and there (short fade-ins). it was on par with the amazing stability brought by nt5 kernel.

          i kinda miss xp at a cultural level since it was a bit the end of that computing culture cycle (after that apple started to dominate and ubuiquitous computing influenced desktop ui)

          • Intermernet 15 minutes ago
            "after that apple started to dominate"

            When did Apple dominate? I'm not trying to hate on Apple here, but there's this weird belief that Apple have had a lead in personal computer OS market share at some point in the last few decades, and it isn't really true since about 1984.

            You can argue that they should dominate, but that doesn't seem to have happened.

        • afzalive 1 hour ago
          Took me years to like Windows XP. Hated the new start menu. I always kept installing Windows 2000 (or ME, probably because it could use Windows 98 drivers but look like Windows 2000).

          I eventually got used to it and ended up liking it.

          • alex_suzuki 38 minutes ago
            IIRC correctly, XP’s stability greatly increased after Service Pack 2 was published.
          • stingraycharles 41 minutes ago
            It was at this moment I realized that people are talking about liking the non-classic-look XP. I always immediately put things in classic look, no grouped windows, etc.
        • Maken 1 hour ago
          The first Windows I used was 98, and I sure didn't miss the blocky grey menus nor the pixelated icons. Maybe it was Fisher Price-ish but the new rounded buttons and borders were way more appealing to me.
        • TazeTSchnitzel 1 hour ago
          The "Windows Classic" look on XP is exceptionally ugly, because those 3D-rendered icons just do not belong on a Windows 2000-style grey background for menus or buttons. (I have recently had to test both these OSes in VMs…)
          • mrweasel 1 hour ago
            That is true, it looked completely off, as if no one really bothered to tests it and make it look nice. It got rid of the horrible window decoration of the default theme, but the start menu looked terrible.
      • bsoqk 24 minutes ago
        https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20040331-00/?p=39...

        >During the Luna studies, that people’s reaction to Luna was often, “Wow this would be a great UI for X,” where X was “my dad” or “my employees” or “my daughter”. People didn’t look at it as the UI for themselves; rather, they thought it was a great UI for somebody else.

        (Luna is the name of the default look of Windows XP)

      • delta_p_delta_x 1 hour ago
        I feel Vista was by far the best. 7 simplified it a bit, but that Start orb and black taskbar on Vista, man, that was glorious.
      • YPPH 1 hour ago
        I found each of 2000, XP, and 7 to be excellent in its own unique way. I'd be happy with any of them. But it also felt exciting to upgrade.

        It's all been downhill from there as far as UX goes.

      • meerita 42 minutes ago
        Ehem... nothing beats the beauty and simplicity of Win 95 :)
      • fractal618 28 minutes ago
        I like the installation music :-)
      • amiga-workbench 1 hour ago
        Perhaps with the Zune theme installed.
      • sunaookami 1 hour ago
        You mean 7 ;)
        • medwards666 1 hour ago
          Windows 7 was certainly pretty, but I still think that W2000 was peak Windows UI (and I've been around since Windows 2.0)
        • Maken 1 hour ago
          Windows 7 fixed Vista a bit, but the Aero windows were never pretty and the non-Aero decorations were painfully obvious a placeholder.
    • CalRobert 2 hours ago
      I thought it looked great :-/
    • PalmPilotProMax 1 hour ago
      I don't see how that's relevant? Article is about the RNG implementation, it doesn't matter what the profile pictures are.
      • lirolero 58 minutes ago
        > I don't see how that's relevant?

        nobody cares

  • KellyCriterion 1 hour ago
    Why they made it that complex?

    A simple rand/mod based on first character of username should be sufficient?

    • lentil_soup 1 hour ago
      because you don't know the number of images before running the code so no number to do the mod part
      • moffkalast 39 minutes ago
        Why wouldn't you know that? It's a set of preloaded stock photos, it's always gonna be the same number.
        • elgertam 14 minutes ago
          On initial install, sure. But user accounts can also be created at arbitrary times. The user may have changed the set of photos in the intervening time and might even be editing the directory during profile creation.
        • bombcar 16 minutes ago
          It’s a directory. You could add pictures to it, and we did in our image layout (mainly for fun, but they wanted the logo as one).
        • herywort 29 minutes ago
          > As a final safety check, the code stops after sampling 100 pictures. This avoids pathological behavior if somebody puts a million files in the Default Pictures directory
        • consp 30 minutes ago
          At compile time of when the pr department decided to change it?
    • nkrisc 16 minutes ago
      So users Adam, Anne and Archie all have the same profile image?
    • stephenlf 10 minutes ago
      How is that simpler?
  • bombcar 1 hour ago
    Does it also check existing users so you don't match one?
  • bhaney 2 hours ago
    100 seems like a very unnecessarily low limit, even for the time
    • daveoc64 2 hours ago
      It's well above the number of images that were in the applicable folder by default, so seems pretty appropriate to me.
  • moritzwarhier 2 hours ago
    Some say the Admin account defaulted to a chessboard.

    I think it's true, but not sure if I'm just falling victim to false memories... help?

    • TazeTSchnitzel 1 hour ago
      The account named "Administrator" that Windows created for you always had the chess piece.
    • bhaney 1 hour ago
      There's no way my memory of this is reliable anymore, but I also remember my administrator account being chess pieces (and my user account being an orange fish).
    • bombcar 1 hour ago
      It might be that the randomization code was bypassed in some cases - like creating an account in safe boot mode or similar.
    • xx_ns 1 hour ago
      It makes sense. The chess piece is the first profile picture in the list.
    • abhinavk 2 hours ago
      I remember it like that too. Or is it Mandela effect?
  • vishnuaniyan 2 minutes ago
    [dead]