7 comments

  • mike_hearn 1 hour ago
    The designers of the firmware anticipate this attack but punt it to the vendor, apparently:

        //
        // Platform implementor should choose a timeout value appropriately:
        
        [snip]
    
        // - The timeout value must be longer than longest possible IO operation in the system
    • wtallis 1 hour ago
      I wonder whether a Thunderbolt accessory can cause arbitrarily long IO operations. What's the upper bound before some other layer gives up and causes the instruction to fault?
  • Hyperlisk 21 minutes ago
    Related repo from them, mentioned in the readme as well: https://github.com/xoreaxeaxeax/asm-hall-of-shame

    > Instruction latency analysis usually focuses on performance optimization—making code run as fast as possible. The Assembly Hall of Shame takes the opposite approach: searching for the absolute floor of single-instruction performance.

    Fun stuff!

  • nazgulsenpai 2 hours ago
    I'm amused at the lengths the readme goes to in order to drive home the fact that this needs to be a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG instruction, including the unnecessarily long code block illustration. The topic is interesting anyway, but that makes it way more entertaining.
    • BadBadJellyBean 2 hours ago
      Do you think a short instruction is okay or does it need to be long? The instructions were a bit unclear in that regard :D
      • nazgulsenpai 1 hour ago
        Only if the short instruction is incredibly long.
  • hyperhello 1 hour ago
    SMM calls for a timeout because it wants everything to be between instructions pro forma. So there’s a very long instruction on a core, but after it completes, the core does stop, right? It seems like to make this into an attack you’d have to a very long instruction that also somehow interacts with the thing the SMM is doing, while it’s doing it.
  • Liftyee 1 hour ago
    I don't know much about the specifics of CPU architecture apart from the existence of assembly and different modes. Either way the explanation was still entertaining and interesting. smiiiiiiii
  • londons_explore 2 hours ago
    Unclear why there is a 1 second timeout at all.

    Presumably the patch for that will be to make it an infinity timeout.

    • toast0 8 minutes ago
      system management mode does a lot of stuff, some of which is time critical. If your system is overheating and one of the cores is stuck off in the weeds, it's probably better to get on with the thermal response rather than waiting forever.

      Also, the System Management Interrupts are supposed to return to normal processing in some finite timespan; a timeout bounds the wait time.

    • xxpor 2 hours ago
      Can this be patched? Is there a chance it's a hw watchdog that you can't fix in microcode?
    • ramses0 1 hour ago
      Looks like it's ~4 billion (2^32) crossover counter?
  • kmeisthax 2 hours ago
    ...huh, I was wondering why serial machine code prankster xoreaxeaxeax was keeping lists of extremely long-running instructions.

    Hopefully this is at least only possible in kernel mode, right?

    Right?!

    • tptacek 1 hour ago
      Is it really a long running instruction? I mean, obviously yes, but what makes it slow is that it's doing an MMIO copy from a slow source. It's like a read(2) system call being "slow" because the fd is associated with a socket to the moon.
      • tuetuopay 1 hour ago
        It's an instruction in the sense that timing boundaries are x86 instruction boundaries, which is what the security model bases itself on. So yeah, not an instruction in the strict CPU sense (microcode + micro-ops), but in the useful sense.
    • xxpor 2 hours ago
      Maybe with vfio/igb_uio/uio_pci_generic? Still root level access.