Ask HN: Looking for programmers who don't use and don't want to use AI

Hello everyone,

I would like to know if there are programmers, communities, conferences, companies, forums etc, where people deliberately refuse to use any forms of AI tools for software development.

I'm looking for the same-minded people who are willing to keep developing hand-made things, and don't want to use AI tools at least in personal projects. If there are already existing communities, I will be glad to join.

What I mean by not using AI tools:

1. It means that you don't use it at all, not even GitHub Copilot for code completions. Everything you create, you made by hand.

2. If you are using AI for something else aside from your personal projects - it is ok. For example, if you are requested to use it on your current job, or like to discuss with ChatGPT your cooking recipes on weekends, it does not count as using AI for software development.

To clarify, I'm not against AI. This technology is marvelous, and it is totally fine if you are using it. I'm just looking for people who don't use it, because they don't want to.

10 points | by Eliah_Lakhin 3 hours ago

5 comments

  • dryark 2 hours ago
    I'm against AI. I've written two books on the topic so far. I also use AI, as I must if my software company is going to make money. There is no choice any more.

    If I had a choice I wouldn't use AI for anything, ever. It's a blight on humanity. But it is a blight everyone has chosen so we are stuck with it.

  • conartist6 1 hour ago
    Someone called for me!? It's deeply unfashionable to believe in human potential, but, well, I do. I am one of the last working (human) hackers. See: https://paulgraham.com/hp.html.

    My reasoning in not using AI (at all) is many-fold. First, I am a powerful learning model, the most powerful one I have access to. This model is so powerful that to reach its true potential I must continually feed it huge amounts of learning experiences and training data. I must seek out other unique perspectives and try to understand them. There is virtually no end to the amount of data this model in me can process and integrate using tools like "philosophy" and "logic".

    Second, it seems to me that models have shown us that the human limitation is not our ability to think, but how fast we can type. The model-first people think that means that we must find a way to offload all our ideas to agents, since agents are on the other side of the low-bandwidth interface that is the keyboard. I just think we need to arm the human with more expressive tools: an instrument, not an assistant.

    Third, most people have stopped believing in the potential of great software. They seem to think that the tools we have now are the best that can ever be made, so by their reasoning there wouldn't be much point to getting good at building new things when instead you could learn to copy what already exists.

    If you're interested in the tools we're making to mint a whole new generation of (human) hackers, I would urge you to come check out the BABLR Discord! It's where we work on our tools, talk philosophy, and boot anyone who tries to sell us their AI shit. https://discord.gg/NfMNyYN6cX

    Every line of this code in the BABLR ecosystem was written by human hands too: https://github.com/orgs/bablr-lang/. In five years of full-time OSS work I've built a streaming regex engine, the world's most powerful streaming parser, a language-agnostic AST/CST format, and a data serialization language that will eventually replace both XML and HTML: https://docs.bablr.org/guides/cstml

    • chromoblob 1 hour ago
      are you against technologically modifying your body in order to become more productive? if no, then why not do that?
      • conartist6 1 hour ago
        Well I put a ski straight through my ulnar nerve once and a surgeon had to splice nerve lining from my wrist into my elbow.

        I'm also currently wearing technological augmentations on my wrists. I call them "the gloves of coding" and they help me not succumb to carpel tunnel.

        And yeah, I spend all my time building developer tools, which are a technological means of augmenting your brain. I just happen to focus on technology that is deterministic.

        • chromoblob 1 hour ago
          what about directly connecting two "powerful" human learning models directly? can you do this without disrupting your determinacy dynamics?
          • conartist6 57 minutes ago
            Wouldn't that just be two humans having a conversation like we are now? Or beyond a conversation humans build relationships -- I do that too, and those relationships influence and guide me. I cherish them.
            • chromoblob 17 minutes ago
              can your developer tools exponentially increase the subjective/internal bandwidth between the participants of a conversation? if yes, how?
              • conartist6 7 minutes ago
                by climbing the ladder of abstraction
            • chromoblob 15 minutes ago
              are your developer tools capable of implementing telepathy? enable the exact recording of sleep dreams?
              • conartist6 7 minutes ago
                well I have to say that that wasn't one of my goals, though I do sometimes have ideas in my sleep and do them
                • chromoblob 6 minutes ago
                  there's a gigantic market. believe me
  • pera 2 hours ago
    Virtually everyone on Mastodon is against generative AI
    • chromoblob 2 hours ago
      care to explain the discerning characteristic of the term 'virtually everyone' as compared to synonyms?
  • chromoblob 2 hours ago
    what's wrong with using AI as a language-extrapolation tool specifically, for people who absolutely forego AI in personal projects? is it that "language is God-like" and therefore cannot be extrapolated artificially?
    • Eliah_Lakhin 2 hours ago
      I'm not quite understand what "language-extrapolation" actually means.

      Personally, I don't use AI because I like to program myself. There are many other reasons, but this simple one dominates.

      • MaxMussio 9 minutes ago
        Programming with the use of AI can still be seen as programming but at a different level of abstraction.

        Depending on your "job to be done", you will prefer one level of abstraction or another.

        Example from before AI: I've always hated javascript frameworks like nest.js because they were doing too much magic under the hood. But for a simple CRUD application in MVP, I'd might use it.

      • chromoblob 2 hours ago
        language extrapolation is extrapolation applied to language.

        example: you try to come up with the name for the most promising next tool (as in, a concept), as you personally judge how it should be named best. (IF YOU KNOW HOW TO TALK, you should have no problems with this.) you ask AI to explain that term. if AI misses significantly, you make your term more precise. pro tip. inspired by my learning style. example can be seen in my latest submission

        i like to program myself by hand too, but you can use AI for programming others.

        • pixel_popping 1 hour ago
          exactly this, doing programming as a Hobby is very different than from a money-making perspective, both aren't incompatible. After all, people do many things that are literally "useless" for fun (and most know already there is a better way to do practically anything they are doing, same as cooking), there is no reason it doesn't apply to programming, however, not using AI nowadays for anything business-related is counterintuitive.
          • chromoblob 1 hour ago
            what is the economical foundation of the entity/phenomenon "businesses"?
          • chromoblob 1 hour ago
            why do you think that it is counterintuitive?
  • chromoblob 2 hours ago
    wait till you conceptualize "hand-made AI"