Hi, Felix from Anthropic here. I work on Claude Cowork and Claude Code.
Claude Cowork uses the Claude Code agent harness running inside a Linux VM (with additional sandboxing, network controls, and filesystem mounts). We run that through Apple's virtualization framework or Microsoft's Host Compute System. This buys us three things we like a lot:
(1) A computer for Claude to write software in, because so many user problems can be solved really well by first writing custom-tailored scripts against whatever task you throw at it. We'd like that computer to not be _your_ computer so that Claude is free to configure it in the moment.
(2) Hard guarantees at the boundary: Other sandboxing solutions exist, but for a few reasons, none of them satisfy as much and allow us to make similarly sound guarantees about what Claude will be able to do and not to.
(3) As a product of 1+2, more safety for non-technical users. If you're reading this, you're probably equipped to evaluate whether or not a particular script or command is safe to run - but most humans aren't, and even the ones who are so often experience "approval fatigue". Not having to ask for approval is valuable.
It's a real trade-off though and I'm thankful for any feedback, including this one. We're reading all the comments and have some ideas on how to maybe make this better - for people who don't want to use Cowork at all, who don't want it inside a VM, or who just want a little bit more control. Thank you!
I tried to use it right after launch from within Claude Desktop, on a Mac VM running within UTM, and got cryptoc messages about Apple virtualization framework.
That made me realize it wants to also run a Apple virtualization VM but can’t since it’s inside one already - imo the error messaging here could be better, or considering that it already is in a VM, it could perhaps bypass the vm altogether. Because right now I still never got to try cowork because of this error.
FWIW I think many of us would actually very much love to have an official (or semi official) Claude sandboxing container image base / vm base. I wonder if you all have considered making something like the cowork vm available for that?
Do you think it would be possible in the future to maybe add developer settings to enable or disable certain features, or to switch to other sandboxing methods that are more lightweight like Apple seatbelt for example?
It's incredible how many applications abuse disk access.
In a similar fashion, Apple Podcasts app decided to download 120GB of podcasts for random reason and never deleted them. It even showed up as "System Data" and made me look for external drive solutions.
I use my MacBook for a mix of dev work and music production and between docker, music libraries, update caches and the like it’s not weird for me to have to go for a fresh install once every year or two.
Once that gets filled up, it’s pretty much impossible to understand where the giant block of memory is.
Yep, it is an awful situation. I'm increasingly becoming frustrated with how Apple keeps disrespecting users.
I downloaded several MacOS installers, not for the MacBook I use, but intending to use them to create a partitioned USB installer (they were for macOS versions that I could clearly not even use for my current MacBook). Then, after creating the USB, since I was short of space, I deleted the installers, including from the trash.
Weirdly, I did not reclaim any space; I wondered why. After scratching my head for a while, I asked an LLM, which directed me to check the system snapshots. I had previously disabled time machine backup and snapshots, and yet I saw these huge system snapshots containing the files I had deleted, and kicker was, there was no way to delete them!
Again I scratched my head for a while for a solution other than wiping the MacBook and re-installing MacOS, and then I had the idea to just restart. Lo and behold, the snapshots were gone after restarting. I was relieved, but also pretty pissed off at Apple.
Because Apple differentiates their products by their storage sizes, they also sell iCloud subscription. There is zero (in fact negative) incentive to respect your storage space.
Been a while since I needed to use it there but it always amazed me that the Windows implementation of iCloud was more flexible in terms of location and ability to decide what files got synced.
I had the same problem and had some luck cleaning things up by enabling "calculate all sizes" in Finder, which will show you the total directory size, and makes it a bit easier to look for where the big stuff is hiding. You'll also want to make sure to look through hidden directories like ~/Library; I found a bunch of Docker-related stuff in there which turned out to be where a lot of my disk space went.
You can enable "calculate all sizes" in Finder with Cmd+J. I think it only works in list view however.
I’d recommend GrandPerspective:[1] it’s really good at displaying this sort of thing, has been around for over two decades, and the developer has managed to keep it to <5MB which is perfect when you’re running very low on space.
I use GP, would recommend as well; it generates great color codes tree maps of your storage. Once you get used to navigating it that way, you won’t go back.
Something like https://dev.yorhel.nl/ncdu with ("brew install ncdu") is great if you are okay with the command line. It's very annoying to drill down in the Finder especially if it's hidden directories.
A ton of thanks. This "hack" allowed to finally see some stuff that was eating up a lot of my space and was showing up as "System Data". It turned out the Podman virtual machine on my MacBook had eaten up more 100GB!
The trick is to reboot into recovery partition, disable SIP, then run OmniDiskSweeper as root (as in `sudo /Applications/OmniDiskSweeper.app/Contents/MacOS/OmniDiskSweeper`). Then you can find all kinds of caches that are otherwise hidden by SIP.
I should not have to hack through /Libary files to regain data on a TB drive because Osx wanted to put 200gbs of crap there in an opaque manner and not give the user ANY direct way to regain their space.
The exclude for Volumes is necessary because otherwise ncdu ends up in an infinite loop - "/Volumes/Macintosh\ HD/Volumes/" can be repeated ad nauseam and ncdu's -x flag doesn't catch that for whatever reason.
Don't run "du -h ~/Library/Messages" then, I've mentioned that many times before and it's crazy to me to think that Apple is just using up 100GB on my machine, just because I enable iMessage syncing and don't want to delete old conversations.
One would think that's a extremely common use case and it will only grow the more years iMessage exists. Just offload them to the cloud, charge me for it if you want but every other free message service that exists has no problem doing that.
If you have a choice there's nothing wrong with it. It's the same way that iCloud Photos already work. You can either disable iCloud and have everything locally in your Photos app or let it dynamically offload to iCloud (If you have enough cloud space).
I'd rather pay for cloud space that I'm already using anyway than having it take up my limited space on my laptop that I can't extend.
Same with photos. You can enable the option to offload but there’s no way to control how much is used locally. I don’t know why messages does that either. Also no easy way to remove the hundreds of thousands of photos in messages across all chats.
This one drives me nuts. Not just on Mac, also on iPhone/iPad. It's 2026, and 5G is the killer feature advertised everywhere. There's no reason to default to downloading gigabytes of audio files if they could be streamed with no issue whatsoever.
I'm on 5G right now and it just struggled to load the HN front page due to local network congestion. At times of day when it's not congested it reaches 60-90Mbyte/s in the same physical location
Spotify just gave up while trying to show me my podcasts. I can't listen to anything not already downloaded right now.
Yet at 3am I'll be able to download a 100GB LLM without difficulty onto the same device that can't stream a podcast right now.
Unfortunately I don't think 5G is the streaming panacea you have in mind. Maybe one day...
That's one way to drive sales for higher priced SSDs in Apple products. I'm pretty sure that that sort of move shows up as a real blip on Apple's books.
Not sure what you have against it. Works great for me. No subscription required. And if I do want to pay for ad free shows and support creators it's easy to do so.
Use whatever you like but I don't think Podcast app users are rare by any stretch of the imagination.
AFAIK the native Podcast app for iPhone is the only way to make PC-phone podcast file syncing work. This stops you downloading the same podcast file twice, once on your PC and once on your phone.
It's generally a good app. People in the tech community like Overcast, but I've always found its UI completely illogical. Apple Podcasts is organized like I'd expect a podcast app to be.
I guess it could warn about it but the VM sandbox is the best part of Cowork. The sandbox itself is necessary to balance the power you get with generating code (that's hidden-to-user) with the security you need for non-technical users. I'd go even further and make user grant host filesystem access only to specific folders, and warn about anything with write access: can think of lots of easy-to-use UIs for this.
The market for Cowork is normals, getting to tap into a executive assistant who can code. Pros are running their consumer "claws" on a separate Mac Mini. Normals aren't going to do that, and offices aren't going to provision two machines to everyone.
The VM is an obvious answer for this early stage of scaled-up research into collaborative computing.
I prefer devcontainers for more involved project setups as they keep it lighter than introducing a VM. It’s also pretty easy to work with Docker (on your host) with the docker-outside-of-docker feature.
However, I’m also curious about using NixOS for dev environments. I think there’s untapped potential there.
As much as an inconvenience this may be, this is exactly what "agents" should be doing. If your tool doesn't have a builtin sandbox that is intended to be used at all times, you're using something downright hazardous and WILL end up suffering data loss.
I believe that employees in Anthropocs use CC to develop CC now.
AI really give much user ability to develop a completed product, but the quality is decreasing. Professional developers will be in demand when the products/features become popular.
First batch of users of new products need to take more responsibility to test the product like a rats in lab
> AI really give much user ability to develop a completed product, but the quality is decreasing. Professional developers will be in demand when the products/features become popular.
Looking at the amount of issues, outages and rookie mistakes the employees are making leads me to believe that most of them are below junior level.
If anyone were to re-interview everyone at Anthropic for their own roles with their own interview questions, I would guess that >75% of them would not pass their own interviews.
The only team the would pass them are the Bun team and some other of the recently acquired startups.
Yup it uses Apple Virtualization framework for virtualization. It makes it so I can't use the Claude Cowork within my VMs and that's when I found out it was running a VM, because it caused a nested VM error. All it does is limit functionality, add extra space and cause lag. A better sandbox environment would be Apple seatbelt, which is what OpenAI uses, but even that isn't perfect: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44283454
OpenAI Codex CLI was able to use it effectively, so at least AI knows how to use it. Still, its deprecated and not maintained, Apple needs to make something new soon.
I literally spent the last 30 mins with DaisyDisk cleaning up stuff in my laptop, I feel HN is reading my mind :)
I also noticed this 10GB VM from CoWork. And was also surprised at just how much space various things seem to use for no particular reason. There doesn't seem to be any sort of cleanup process in most apps that actually slims down their storage, judging by all the cruft.
Even Xcode. The command line tools installs and keeps around SDKs for a bunch of different OS's, even though I haven't launched Xcode in months. Or it keeps a copy of the iOS simulator even though I haven't launched one in over a year.
Ok, so a lot of this boils down to the fact that this sort of software really wants to be running on linux. For both windows and mac, the only way to (really) do that is creating a VM.
It seems to me that the main issue here is painful disconnects between the VM and the host system. The kernel in the VM wants to manage memory and disk usage and that management ultimately means the host needs to grant the guest OS large blocks of disk and memory.
Is anyone thinking about or working on narrowing that requirement? Like, I may want the 99% of what a VM does, but I really want my host system to ultimately manage both memory and disk. I'd love it if in the linux VM I had a bridge for file IO which interacted directly with the host file system and a bridge in the memory management system which ultimately called the host system's memory allocation API directly and disabled the kernels memory management system.
containers and cgroups are basically how linux does this. But that's a pretty big surface area that I doubt any non-linux system could adopt.
It’s a solved problem in the VM world too. Memory ballooning is a technique where a driver inside the VM kernel cooperates with the hypervisor to return memory back to the host by appearing to consume the memory from the VM. And disk access is even easier; just present a network filesystem to the VM.
Given that Claude Code runs without issues on macOS, I'd guess that it's more about sandboxing shell sessions (i.e. not macOS applications or single processes, for which solutions exist).
Unfortunately, unlike Linux, macOS doesn't have a great out-of-the-box story there; even Apple's first-party OCI runtime is based on per-container Linux VMs.
I really love Anthropic's models, but, every single product/feature I've used other than the Claude Code CLI has been terrible... The CLI just "sticked" for me and I've never needed (or arguably looked in depth) any other features. This for my professional dayjob.
For personal use, where I have a Pro subscription and adventure into exploring all the other features/products they have... I mean, the experience outside of Claude Code and the terminal has been... bad.
> every single product/feature I've used other than the Claude Code CLI has been terrible
yeah they're shipping too fast and everything is buggy as shit
- fork conversation button doesn't even work anymore in vscode extension
- sometimes when I reconnect to my remote SSH in VSCode, previously loaded chats become inaccessible. The chats are still there in the .jsonl files but for some reason the CC extension becomes incapable of reading them.
I tend to agree here. Today, I tried to get the claude chat to give me a list of Jira tickets from one board (link provided) and then upload it to notion with some additional context. It glitched out after trying the prompt over again 4x. I eventually gave up and went back to the terminal.
Yes. This is my experience as well. The software quality is generally horrible. It surely has improved a lot over the last couple of months, but it is still pretty horrible.
It is quite normal for me to have to force-close Claude Desktop.
Aren't most these people recommending random tools in the github chat for this entry just attempting to exploit naive users? Why would anyone in this day and age follow advice of new users to download new repos or click at random websites when they already attempt to use claude code or cowork?
While I generally agree with your sentiment, these tools aren't bad ones:
- Santa is a very common tool used by macOS admins to lock down binary and file access privileges for apps, usually on managed machines
- Disk Inventory X and GrandPerspective are well-known disk space usage tools for macOS (I personally use DaisyDisk but that requires a license)
- WizTree and WinDirStat are very common tools from Windows admin toolkits
The only one here I can say is potentially suspect is ClearDisk. I haven't used it before, but it does appear to be useful for specifically tracking down developer caches that eat up disk space.
The GitHub issue is AI generated. In my experience triaging these in other projects, you can’t really trust anything in them without verifying. The users will make claims and then the AI will embellish to make them sound more important and accurate.
Making them look more accurate is not the same as being more accurate, and llms are pretty good at the former.
Imagine a user had a vague idea or something that is broken, then the LLM will choose to interpret his comment for what it thinks is the most likely actual underneath problem, without actually checking anything.
“Seem important and accurate” is correct. It doesn’t imply actual accuracy, the llm will just use figures that resemble an actual calculation, hiding they are wild guesses.
I’ve run into the issue trying to use Claude to instrument and analyze some code for performance. It would make claims like “around 500mb ram are being used in this allocation” without evidence.
macbook pro m4 bought last year. worked on so many codes and projects. never hot after closing lid. installed electron claude. closed lid and went to sleep and woke up to macbook that has been hot all night. uninstall claude. problem went away.
i kept telling myself this BUT NEVER ELECTRON AGAIN.
Its just another example and just a detail in the broader story: We cannot trust any model provider with any tooling or other non model layer on our machines or our servers. No browsers, no cli, no apps no whatever. There may not be alternatives to frontier models yet, but everything else we need to own as true open source trustable layer that works in our interest. This is the battle we can win.
Why don't people form cooperatives, contribute to buy serious hardware and colocate them in local data centers, and run good local models like GLM on them to share?
We are starting to! TBH it will take some time until this is feasible at larger scale but we are running a test for this model in one of my community groups.
This GitHub issue itself is clearly AI slop. If you’ve been dealing with GitHub issues in the past months it will be obvious, but it’s confirmed at the end:
> Filed via Claude Code
I assume part of it is true, but determining which part is true is the hard part. I’ve lost a lot of time chasing AI-written bug reports that were actually something else wrong with the user’s computer. I’m assuming the claims of “75% faster” and other numbers are just AI junk, but at least someone could verify if the 10GB VM exists.
labelled "high priority" a month ago. No actual activity by Anthropic despite it being their repo. I'm starting to get the feeling they're not actually very good at this?
What's funny is interacting with it in claude code. Claude-desktop-cowork can't do anything about the VM. It creates this 10 GiB VM, but the disk image starts off with something like 6-7 GiB full already, which means any of the cowork stuff you try to do has to fit into the remaining couple of gigs. It's possible to fill it up, and then claude cowork stops working. Because the disk is full. Claude cowork isn't able to fix this problem. It can't even run basic shell commands in the VM, and Opus4.6 is able to tell the user that, but isn't smart enough/empowered to do anything about it.
So contrary to the github issue, my problem is that it's not enough space. So the fix is to navigate to ~/Library/Application\ Support/Claude/vm_bundles, and then ask Claude Code to upsize the disk to a sparse 60 GiB file, giving cowork much more space to work in while not immediately taking up 60 GiB.
Bigger picture, what this teaches me though, is that my knowledge is still useful in guiding the AI to be able to do things, so I'm not obsolete yet!
Also apparently eating 2 GB RAM or so to run an entire virtual machine even if you've disabled Cowork. Not sure which of this is worse. Absolute garbage.
Claude Cowork uses the Claude Code agent harness running inside a Linux VM (with additional sandboxing, network controls, and filesystem mounts). We run that through Apple's virtualization framework or Microsoft's Host Compute System. This buys us three things we like a lot:
(1) A computer for Claude to write software in, because so many user problems can be solved really well by first writing custom-tailored scripts against whatever task you throw at it. We'd like that computer to not be _your_ computer so that Claude is free to configure it in the moment.
(2) Hard guarantees at the boundary: Other sandboxing solutions exist, but for a few reasons, none of them satisfy as much and allow us to make similarly sound guarantees about what Claude will be able to do and not to.
(3) As a product of 1+2, more safety for non-technical users. If you're reading this, you're probably equipped to evaluate whether or not a particular script or command is safe to run - but most humans aren't, and even the ones who are so often experience "approval fatigue". Not having to ask for approval is valuable.
It's a real trade-off though and I'm thankful for any feedback, including this one. We're reading all the comments and have some ideas on how to maybe make this better - for people who don't want to use Cowork at all, who don't want it inside a VM, or who just want a little bit more control. Thank you!
That made me realize it wants to also run a Apple virtualization VM but can’t since it’s inside one already - imo the error messaging here could be better, or considering that it already is in a VM, it could perhaps bypass the vm altogether. Because right now I still never got to try cowork because of this error.
> All-in-One Sandbox for AI Agents that combines Browser, Shell, File, MCP and VSCode Server in a single Docker container.
Also, please allow Cowork to work on directories outside the homedir!
In a similar fashion, Apple Podcasts app decided to download 120GB of podcasts for random reason and never deleted them. It even showed up as "System Data" and made me look for external drive solutions.
I use my MacBook for a mix of dev work and music production and between docker, music libraries, update caches and the like it’s not weird for me to have to go for a fresh install once every year or two.
Once that gets filled up, it’s pretty much impossible to understand where the giant block of memory is.
I downloaded several MacOS installers, not for the MacBook I use, but intending to use them to create a partitioned USB installer (they were for macOS versions that I could clearly not even use for my current MacBook). Then, after creating the USB, since I was short of space, I deleted the installers, including from the trash.
Weirdly, I did not reclaim any space; I wondered why. After scratching my head for a while, I asked an LLM, which directed me to check the system snapshots. I had previously disabled time machine backup and snapshots, and yet I saw these huge system snapshots containing the files I had deleted, and kicker was, there was no way to delete them!
Again I scratched my head for a while for a solution other than wiping the MacBook and re-installing MacOS, and then I had the idea to just restart. Lo and behold, the snapshots were gone after restarting. I was relieved, but also pretty pissed off at Apple.
You can enable "calculate all sizes" in Finder with Cmd+J. I think it only works in list view however.
[1] https://grandperspectiv.sourceforge.net/
Like, assuming they need the data and it's inconveniently large to fit into RAM, where/how should they store and access it if not the primary disk?
I should not have to hack through /Libary files to regain data on a TB drive because Osx wanted to put 200gbs of crap there in an opaque manner and not give the user ANY direct way to regain their space.
Your friend is called ncdu and can be used as follows:
The exclude for Volumes is necessary because otherwise ncdu ends up in an infinite loop - "/Volumes/Macintosh\ HD/Volumes/" can be repeated ad nauseam and ncdu's -x flag doesn't catch that for whatever reason.One would think that's a extremely common use case and it will only grow the more years iMessage exists. Just offload them to the cloud, charge me for it if you want but every other free message service that exists has no problem doing that.
I'd rather pay for cloud space that I'm already using anyway than having it take up my limited space on my laptop that I can't extend.
Spotify just gave up while trying to show me my podcasts. I can't listen to anything not already downloaded right now.
Yet at 3am I'll be able to download a 100GB LLM without difficulty onto the same device that can't stream a podcast right now.
Unfortunately I don't think 5G is the streaming panacea you have in mind. Maybe one day...
That's one way to drive sales for higher priced SSDs in Apple products. I'm pretty sure that that sort of move shows up as a real blip on Apple's books.
I also prompt warp/gemini cli to identify unnecessary cache and similar data and delete them
Use whatever you like but I don't think Podcast app users are rare by any stretch of the imagination.
https://developer.hashicorp.com/vagrant is still a thing.
The market for Cowork is normals, getting to tap into a executive assistant who can code. Pros are running their consumer "claws" on a separate Mac Mini. Normals aren't going to do that, and offices aren't going to provision two machines to everyone.
The VM is an obvious answer for this early stage of scaled-up research into collaborative computing.
However, I’m also curious about using NixOS for dev environments. I think there’s untapped potential there.
https://exe.dev
https://sprites.dev
https://shellbox.dev
AI really give much user ability to develop a completed product, but the quality is decreasing. Professional developers will be in demand when the products/features become popular.
First batch of users of new products need to take more responsibility to test the product like a rats in lab
Looking at the amount of issues, outages and rookie mistakes the employees are making leads me to believe that most of them are below junior level.
If anyone were to re-interview everyone at Anthropic for their own roles with their own interview questions, I would guess that >75% of them would not pass their own interviews.
The only team the would pass them are the Bun team and some other of the recently acquired startups.
I also noticed this 10GB VM from CoWork. And was also surprised at just how much space various things seem to use for no particular reason. There doesn't seem to be any sort of cleanup process in most apps that actually slims down their storage, judging by all the cruft.
Even Xcode. The command line tools installs and keeps around SDKs for a bunch of different OS's, even though I haven't launched Xcode in months. Or it keeps a copy of the iOS simulator even though I haven't launched one in over a year.
Not a new problem, unfortunately. DevCleaner is commonly used to keep it under control: https://github.com/vashpan/xcode-dev-cleaner
It seems to me that the main issue here is painful disconnects between the VM and the host system. The kernel in the VM wants to manage memory and disk usage and that management ultimately means the host needs to grant the guest OS large blocks of disk and memory.
Is anyone thinking about or working on narrowing that requirement? Like, I may want the 99% of what a VM does, but I really want my host system to ultimately manage both memory and disk. I'd love it if in the linux VM I had a bridge for file IO which interacted directly with the host file system and a bridge in the memory management system which ultimately called the host system's memory allocation API directly and disabled the kernels memory management system.
containers and cgroups are basically how linux does this. But that's a pretty big surface area that I doubt any non-linux system could adopt.
Unfortunately, unlike Linux, macOS doesn't have a great out-of-the-box story there; even Apple's first-party OCI runtime is based on per-container Linux VMs.
And after looking into Jails, it looks like BSD also supports linux cgroups... that's actually really impressive. [1]
[1] https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/handbook/linuxemu/#linuxem...
so crazy on a windows desktop I at most complain if it is hardcoded to the system drive (looking at you ollama)
For personal use, where I have a Pro subscription and adventure into exploring all the other features/products they have... I mean, the experience outside of Claude Code and the terminal has been... bad.
yeah they're shipping too fast and everything is buggy as shit
- fork conversation button doesn't even work anymore in vscode extension
- sometimes when I reconnect to my remote SSH in VSCode, previously loaded chats become inaccessible. The chats are still there in the .jsonl files but for some reason the CC extension becomes incapable of reading them.
It is quite normal for me to have to force-close Claude Desktop.
- Santa is a very common tool used by macOS admins to lock down binary and file access privileges for apps, usually on managed machines
- Disk Inventory X and GrandPerspective are well-known disk space usage tools for macOS (I personally use DaisyDisk but that requires a license)
- WizTree and WinDirStat are very common tools from Windows admin toolkits
The only one here I can say is potentially suspect is ClearDisk. I haven't used it before, but it does appear to be useful for specifically tracking down developer caches that eat up disk space.
Did you mean than accurate rather than and accurate? Having a more accurate issue description only sounds like a good thing to me
Imagine a user had a vague idea or something that is broken, then the LLM will choose to interpret his comment for what it thinks is the most likely actual underneath problem, without actually checking anything.
I’ve run into the issue trying to use Claude to instrument and analyze some code for performance. It would make claims like “around 500mb ram are being used in this allocation” without evidence.
i kept telling myself this BUT NEVER ELECTRON AGAIN.
this is usual reason for divorce /s
Storage should be cheaper, complain about Apple making you pay a premium.
Try this if you have claude code -- ls -a your home dir and see all the garbage claude creates.
> Filed via Claude Code
I assume part of it is true, but determining which part is true is the hard part. I’ve lost a lot of time chasing AI-written bug reports that were actually something else wrong with the user’s computer. I’m assuming the claims of “75% faster” and other numbers are just AI junk, but at least someone could verify if the 10GB VM exists.
So contrary to the github issue, my problem is that it's not enough space. So the fix is to navigate to ~/Library/Application\ Support/Claude/vm_bundles, and then ask Claude Code to upsize the disk to a sparse 60 GiB file, giving cowork much more space to work in while not immediately taking up 60 GiB.
Bigger picture, what this teaches me though, is that my knowledge is still useful in guiding the AI to be able to do things, so I'm not obsolete yet!
Yea, that's a receipt for problems.
Pondering... Noodling... Some other nonsense...